You know, I cannot believe how 2 faced they all are.  Dont expect me to be around much longer.  They will do anything to make me look bad and make them look like perfect little angels.

[quote:0a81fca8a7="shabazz"]You guys have not got the full story on this situation.  This has got 100% completely blown out of perportion from word of mouth.  All we were doing was talking about situations or actions that one could do to get kicked out of the guild.  This action was ONE of the actions that got brought up.  We never were going to kick ohnoez or even talk to him about it cause we have never heard of any people from that PUG saying anything about it.  But before we even finished our talk someone went to ohnoez and said people in the guild thaought he was a ninja which as i would have done the same he  got upset and left.  Dreadwind and spoiled have went and talked to him saying that this is not what anyone wanted and his response was he felt to uneasy at this time to come back.  This was a case of people taking a conversation and twisting it.  Although we do need to set some rules and I have no regrets that we had that topic of conversation going.  It just sucks that it got used to upset a person making them leave the guild.   And just for all you info we never even named anyone in the orginal post we just said if someone ninjaed the hide would that be grounds for removal.[/quote:0a81fca8a7]
They were the ones twisting the conversation around to make Ohnoez look bad, not me.  They were the ones calling him a ninja.  They were the ones saying that he was bragging in gchat that he ninja'd it.  I am the one who posted the Chatlog from that day to prove to them that he NEVER said he ninja'd anything or that he was bragging at all.  And now they are trying to twist things around to make me look bad.

Accuse me of leaking information???  I went to him to explain that what he did made others feel that he ninja'd it.  Plain and simple.  That isnt leaking information.  That is doing our job as Officers/Council as per Uda's request!

[quote:0a81fca8a7]What I am askin is this if you are an officer/council and one of these less than ummmmm (edited cuz it wasnt nice) people do something foolish, over the top, or just non FSE DEAL WITH IT THEN talk to them tell them it is gonna go in front of council/officers and it may mean removal from guild right now i just feel like this could be a bit of a surprise attack.[/quote:0a81fca8a7]
[quote:0a81fca8a7]Please take on an active role to fix I am tired of loggin on to &quot;Hey Uda what we gonna do about (insert name here)?&quot;[/quote:0a81fca8a7]
They are too scared to remove anyone from the guild, even though most want them out, even non Officers/Council, for fear that others will leave too.  And if you notice, Dreadwind has been the one to 1st attack everyone that should be removed.  He is the one starting every post.  But the second I jump in, I get attacked.

Kanaheruc was never in TBT, period!  He was only an app for FSE.  I have asked a few ex-TBT members if Kanaheruc was ever in TBT, and each responce was NO!

[quote:0a81fca8a7]so you where there as TBT broke up?  Grich i dont remember that!


he was an app  they had i took as TBT  to me no different than any of the other TBT

So don't be that guy[/quote:0a81fca8a7]
Ok then, so I must be a moron then, along with every ex-TBT member I asked.  Just look at his [URL=http://fse.luniz.org/viewtopic.php?t=222]application[/URL]:

[b:0a81fca8a7]What other guilds have you been part of and why did you leave them?[/b:0a81fca8a7]
Regardless-was a noob at the time they didnt really help me on account eveyone else was so much higher.  Behemoths-was my favorite guild up untill i had to leave just so i could find a guild that was end game so i could get some nice gear.

Do you see &quot;[b:0a81fca8a7]The Bad Touch[/b:0a81fca8a7]&quot; in there at all?  I sure as hell dont.  He came from a PUG, plain and simple.  Want to know how I know this?  Because I was in the PUG at the time.  He was added to the Guild for his 2 week trial the day before FSE &amp; TBT merged!  Not after.  He applied on May 29th, and added to the guild on May 30th.  We then ran BRD on the 30th and got him his MC Attunement, the night before the merger, and then I went to bed.  The next day, all of a sudden, we have more people, due to the fact that while I was sleeping, the merger had happened.  So yes, I was not there when FSE &amp; TBT merged, but i was there BEFOREHAND to bring this guy into the guild.

[quote:0a81fca8a7="Baeloc"]Kana I think is just a regular applicant.[/quote:0a81fca8a7]
So Uda, how can Kanaheruc be just a regular applicant when you say he is ex-TBT???  Please explain the logic there.

[quote:0a81fca8a7="shabazz"]Off the subject of the actual post i would just like to put in my 2 cents about the hide.  If one does not see this as a straight out ninja im not sure if you have ever actually read the WOW forums.  I cant even remember back when it was a very very very wanted item how many posts were &quot;HECTOR NINJAS HIDE&quot;.  So as a server i thought it was widely known that if the hide falls its a roll for the group.  Even as a guild we always went in to ubrs not even questioning that if the hide fell it was a random roll not the skinners, this wasnt talked about just how the hide was handled.   With the statement of comparing the hide to a crystal first of all ZG is guild run not a PUG second if you want to go to that extreme of a comparison then everytime they skin we need to roll for the thick, rugged, bat, tiger and panter leather cause that is more comparable then a crystal to the hide.[/quote:0a81fca8a7]
Ok, so I do not have mining.  And while we are in ZG, a miner gets a mine and out of it comes an Arcane Crystal.  I dont see anyone rolling on it.  But hey, i dont have mining, and I need one.  But we didnt roll on the crystal.  So what is one to do?  Go out and take up mining or make the miner give his Arcane Crystal up?  You know damn well that he isnt gonna give it up.  He is the one who took the time to get mining up to lvl 300.  So I have no right at all to the Arcane Crystal.  Without mining, the Arcane Crystal would have never dropped.  Without lvl 300 skinning, and Finkle's skinner, and skinning enchants, the hide would have never dropped.  It is up to the skinner on what he wants to do with it.  They want to go and make the argument that without all of the other people in the raid, that he would never have gotten the hide.  Ya well, without the people that were in the raid previously when Finkle's skinner dropped, he wouldnt have been able to get the skin.  So, the people who were in the raid when Finkle's skinner dropped should also get a shot at the hide too, even though they were not in the run when the hide dropped.  So should all of the people who helped him grind while working on getting his skinning up to lvl 300.  So should the enchanter who gave him the +5 skinning enchant to his gloves.  So should the people who were in the raid when the recipe to enchant +5 skinning to gloves dropped, because without them, the enchanter would have never gotten the recipe, and Ohnoez would have never gotten the enchant to be able to skin the beast.  This can go on and on, but is just a waste of time to argue about it.

[quote:0a81fca8a7="Udazhi"]ok so i suck at this I hear my Son Dread thinks I am mad at him.......Not so

I am glad dread is &quot;that guy&quot; lookin out for the guild......[/quote:0a81fca8a7]
For the love of god, please dont be mad at Dreadwind.  We cannot have this.

But along comes Gricham...
[quote:0a81fca8a7="Udazhi"]so you where there as TBT broke up?  Grich i dont remember that!

he was an app  they had i took as TBT  to me no different than any of the other TBT

So don't be that guy[/quote:0a81fca8a7]
[quote:0a81fca8a7="Udazhi"]why did he brag in Guild how he &quot;ninja'd&quot; it?
I will make it simple you may try and try to make this ok but if Ohnoez says it was ninja'd and the party couldn't roll on it and he just kept it IT WAS NINJA'D.[/quote:0a81fca8a7]
Sorry, check the Chatlog my friend, as you are wrong.  But what he says goes.
[quote:0a81fca8a7="Udazhi"]Nothing to discuss or debate  IT WAS NINJA'D[/quote:0a81fca8a7]
[quote:0a81fca8a7="shabazz"]All we were doing was talking about situations or actions that one could do to get kicked out of the guild.  This action was ONE of the actions that got brought up.[/quote:0a81fca8a7]
All we were doing was talking?  Hmm, it seems to me that it was more of &quot;STFU Gricham, you do not know what you are saying.  What we say goes, PERIOD!&quot;
[code:1:0a81fca8a7]
         ____________
       /              \
      |                |
      |  Inner Circle  |                  O &lt;- Gricham
      |                |
       \______________/

[/code:1:0a81fca8a7]

&lt;/end rant&gt;

So my friend, I wish to say that it has been great running with you and a few of the others like Disenchant/Kryos/Masema/Ahkcs/Zuwani and whoever else that I cannot think of atm.  Again, thank you very much for all of the well appreciated help, in game and on forums.  Just dont take the path I did in believing in something that was never meant to help everyone as a whole, just the &quot;inner circle&quot;.