What I'm seeing is that we're dealing with a tricky &quot;This is how pick up raids should go&quot; type of disagreement in which there's no real right answer for the way to go about it.

There's sense in both sides of it, but there's just no actual right answer. You know? 

The remedy? Well, it seems to me that the &quot;how do we deal with the pristine hide of the beast&quot; had to be hammered out at the start of the raid. Since it wasn't, you're asking for trouble come skin time!

The actual &quot;how it all went down&quot; is hearsay, and determined by judging the tone of a few comments. I'm trying to get at this!

So, I spoke with Ohnoez myself to figure it out. This &quot;who gets the hide of the beast&quot; debate has been thrown around on forums and in pug raids for some time. 

Since I wasn't in the raid itself I can't possibly guess the attitude that went on. From the perspective Ohnoez gave me, he asked if there was anyone in the raid able to skin the beast before the fight. To this, there was no response. The beast died, and Ohnoez proceeded to skin it and he recieved the flashy epic item.

In his words, the raid then demanded the hide from him. He denied them.

So now, I'm defining the term &quot;ninja&quot; as I know it. It's the word used to describe the act of taking something that is not rightfully yours. So the problem here is &quot;what determines the right to this item?&quot;. Let's see. 

Is it the raid's right to the item, as Ohnoez couldn't have obtained the goal without the effort of all the players present? Yes, I believe they have a right.

Is it Ohnoez's right to the item, as the pristine hide of the beast wouldn't have been attainable were it not for his skinning skill? Yes, you can also say he has a right. 

So the reasoning to me seems that both sides have a pretty valid claim, but the method of distribution had to be agreed upon by all parties [color=yellow:a7a580edbe]before[/color:a7a580edbe] because of the multiple schools of thought. 

So beauty is in the eye of the beholder here. 

Now I ask myself what I would have done. I can honestly say I would have brought it up to the raid before the start. So that solves nothing. :)

I was in a debate about pick up group &quot;proper conduct&quot; in Everquest once. I was an advocate of &quot;Need before Greed&quot; rewarding those who would benefit from an item rather than allowing all to have a shot at it for use in the auction house. I believed myself to be right in this stance, no questions asked. I, Dreadwind, was right. Right? The debate got pretty heated as opinions started flying out. In short time, it turned into a &quot;I will now call you a &lt;insert&gt; as I assert my claim&quot; debate. I viewed those who disagreed with me as greedy sons of bitches with very little quality in their character. You know, in it for the gold. My answer to the notion of &quot;how do you deal with liars who say they need it but then intend to sell the item&quot; was &quot;Be aware of the type of people you group with, and don't play with people who will dupe you&quot;. 

I was both right and I wasn't. But how do you deterimine right? 

So, here's what I say.

When the guild conduct code is brought up, we can tackle how we would like members to behave in pick up groups concerning these matters maybe. As for this situation? I think we can let it slide without labeling Ohnoez as a thief. Talking to him, I don't think he was in that raid with the intention of looting something that wasn't his. There &quot;is&quot; a belief that skinners have rights to the pristine hide that not all agree with, but some go by.

I really thought hard on this one, and I think Ohnoez's actions while not performed in the way I'd have done, can be forgiven. The method of distributing the hide was not accepted by the players there, and they attempted to enforce the policy after the item showed up. This was the heart of the problem, in my opinion, of course.

How's it sound?